The faces are so weird, in a good way, they almost look CGI.

bacalhauvoador said:
The faces are so weird, in a good way, they almost look CGI.

some cuts are cgi

Revofthe6paths said:
some cuts are cgi

I think the blood is the only thing that's CGI, not sure yet about the big black ball when it breaks and pieces fall everywhere.

sonicblue02 said:
I think the blood is the only thing that's CGI, not sure yet about the big black ball when it breaks and pieces fall everywhere.

actually almost everything might be cgi except the first and last 5 seconds (+0:14-0:15s and a few still images)

The guy's face at 37 seconds looks like cgi. If it really isn't cgi then they seem to have made 2D animation look like awful anime cgi. Kind of impressive in it's own right.

Generris said:
The guy's face at 37 seconds looks like cgi. If it really isn't cgi then they seem to have made 2D animation look like awful anime cgi. Kind of impressive in it's own right.

Pretty hard to tell since it gets really dark but even if it is but it actually looks good don't know what you are on about.

0:07 and 0:025 is definitely cgi right? nothing else looks cg to me except the blood

It's all 2D except part of the blood maybe, you're all crazy

Is this the best anime episode of 2020? Or am I forget about some others?

Skariz said:
Is this the best anime episode of 2020? Or am I forget about some others?

FGO babylonia #18 was also a banger (unless that was last year)

Are people here not familiar with TNK drawings 😅

CGI? Are you guys nuts?

reminds me of Masami Mori's cut in one piece #870, I thought it was CGI when I first saw it.
good animators can have that effect.

Credited as Director of 3D Animation: Kentaro Kimura and Animator 3DCG: Ayaka Maeda, for sure we could q is 3d blood right? Notice sukuna's hand movement, as he disappears in the dark around his forehead, it's very three-dimensional! With TNK GOD as one of the Sakkan we had an absurd detail in some parts, this must be one of them.

BlackSakuga said:
Credited as Director of 3D Animation: Kentaro Kimura and Animator 3DCG: Ayaka Maeda, for sure we could q is 3d blood right? Notice sukuna's hand movement, as he disappears in the dark around his forehead, it's very three-dimensional! With TNK GOD as one of the Sakkan we had an absurd detail in some parts, this must be one of them.

Also at 7-10s those are clearly 3d models. In the first cut, hand and fabric motion on the left side of the frame (+clothing shading between the legs and line art for the bottom edges of the cloth). In the second cut again the hand motion and shading on the palm. Honestly the whole model is very clear on both cuts but those specific details are 100% visible

3-dimensionality ,shadow work and fluid consistency like this in faces, fabric and limbs (especially with moving cameras zooming in like in 0:25) is rare enough in seasonals that people will mistake it for CG and feel uncanny

Like the 0:35 part while he disappears in the shadows. Every line (Eyes, Mouth,pupils even the face marks) is redrawn slightly every other frame while the shadows engulf it slowly over it . Its not just the same face drawing with the shadows engulfing it. And that creates a fluidity,jittering and 3-dimensionality that may throw people off and make it feel like cg

i guess saying its just cgi alone is problematic. what i personally meant and thought was obvious is that the basis of the animation are 3d models.

lmfao these comments are something else, there is no CG here outside of the blood and the debris from 0:42-0:45

Which Ren Onodera did himself (look at his other works)

PurpleGeth said:
lmfao these comments are something else, there is no CG here outside of the blood and the debris from 0:42-0:45

Which Ren Onodera did himself (look at his other works)

Ok so what about Mahito in the same cut you mentioned and in the next cut?

Revofthe6paths said:
Ok so what about Mahito in the same cut you mentioned and in the next cut?

hand drawn. You can even see the shape "melt" between individual frames on the back left foot as the douga is inconsistently traced

PurpleGeth said:
hand drawn. You can even see the shape "melt" between individual frames on the back left foot as the douga is inconsistently traced

Let me ask a general question. If i use a 3d model as the skeleton of an animation and hand-draw on top of it or correct it, would you call that cg? If not then how would you distinguish it from lets say a "normal" key animation-correction?

I would consider that a 'hybrid', so I guess technically neither 3d or 2d. Hiromitsu Seki does it a lot.

In this case though I dont think it makes any sense to model Mahito in 3D for 2 cuts. Neither of which are that complicated to draw for an animator with skill like Onodera definitely has, which is why expensive and time consuming CG is used for things that are difficult to animate (cars, kaijuu, mecha)

I dont think thats the only example of 3d modeling but yeah it doesnt make sense to me either because there are no cuts in this whole scene that i would consider complex to animate in 2d, which is why im losing braincells

How is 0:25 not CG?

This is one hell of a discussion. Hopefully Onodera posts his genga somewhere, some day...

epicgamer said:
How is 0:25 not CG?

You can tell from the shape of the stitch things constantly shifting between frames during the zoom in (and the foot example from geth) If it was pure CGI then the shapes would remain perfectly consistent. (At least in most scenarios)

Im sorry to have made a war in the comments, i really just liked the cut.

Let me stop the war: it's not CGI, confirmed by the artist.

Also it's Ren Onodera's work with some cuts redone or corrected by Hironori Tanaka. Except the effects between 0:02-0:05 and the eye cut from 0:51 which are unknown

EDIT: Ren Onodera said he used Houdini as a reference to draw the blood, but he did draw the blood by himself! The characters are also hand drawn.

bacalhauvoador said:
Im sorry to have made a war in the comments, i really just liked the cut.

I dont know about the others who were involved in this discussion but in my eyes at least this was not a war, its why the comment section exists in the first place. I feel like when there's a discussion around a scene having cgi or not it gives off the impression of negativity but i never cared if this scene had cgi or not. I just wanted to figure out what the story and philosophy behind it is. Ultimately i find this situation extremely interesting and im personally seeing a pattern of artists (in the industry in general) using similar tools for scenes that take place in pocket dimensions. Another example that came to mind immediately was from dbs broly.

ftLoic said:
Let me stop the war: it's not CGI (he might have traced it though), confirmed by the artist.

Also it's Ren Onodera's work with some cuts redone or corrected by Hironori Tanaka. Except the effects between 0:02-0:05 and the eye cut from 0:51 which are unknown

Glad it was clarified... it's an amazing scene!! Onodera Age

ftLoic said:
Let me stop the war: it's not CGI, confirmed by the artist.

Also it's Ren Onodera's work with some cuts redone or corrected by Hironori Tanaka. Except the effects between 0:02-0:05 and the eye cut from 0:51 which are unknown

EDIT: Ren Onodera said he used Houdini as a reference to draw the blood, but he did draw the blood by himself! The characters are also hand drawn.

source?

revolvhh said:
source?

confirmed by the artist.

PurpleGeth said:
confirmed by the artist.

where?

revolvhh said:
where?

DM, which would be rude to share. Loic is a trusted source though and I've talked with him about it, so you'll have to take our word for it. Also it's believable just by looking at the genga for Black Clover, and the Azur Lane scene. Onodera is obviously familiar with integrating different mediums like this, far from the first time.

PurpleGeth said:
DM, which would be rude to share. Loic is a trusted source though and I've talked with him about it, so you'll have to take our word for it. Also it's believable just by looking at the genga for Black Clover, and the Azur Lane scene. Onodera is obviously familiar with integrating different mediums like this, far from the first time.

sorry if this comes out as rude (not intended), but why is Loic considered a trusted source? I have no problem believing its 2D (Black Clover OP3 is a very similar case) I'm just trying to confirm my source. I did basic research (looking at his twitter and github) but I fail to get his relationship with the actual japanese animators. Did he """leak"""" stuff before that were confirmed to be true? Also, if this is unrelated to the original cut/topic feel free to delete this and answer me in the DM.

big_moist said:
sorry if this comes out as rude (not intended), but why is Loic considered a trusted source? I have no problem believing its 2D (Black Clover OP3 is a very similar case) I'm just trying to confirm my source. I did basic research (looking at his twitter and github) but I fail to get his relationship with the actual japanese animators. Did he """leak"""" stuff before that were confirmed to be true? Also, if this is unrelated to the original cut/topic feel free to delete this and answer me in the DM.

The comments on this post are already a mess so no worries with talking about it here

and I spoke with him and confirmed what he is saying, so if you don't want to take his word for it even though he's done tons of great work for this site, then please take mine.

also just to clarify, the blood is 2D hand-drawn but assisted with Houdini software as a reference like Loic said.

PurpleGeth said:
The comments on this post are already a mess so no worries with talking about it here

and I spoke with him and confirmed what he is saying, so if you don't want to take his word for it even though he's done tons of great work for this site, then please take mine.

also just to clarify, the blood is 2D hand-drawn but assisted with Houdini software as a reference like Loic said.

I mean, the same I asked about loic could be asked about you. I totally get why you would be trusted in this community, I just fail to understand the relationship with animators.

big_moist said:
I mean, the same I asked about loic could be asked about you. I totally get why you would be trusted in this community, I just fail to understand the relationship with animators.

lol I get the skepticism to an extent but 7000 uploads, 2000 comments and 20,000 tag edits later would be a strange time to start sabotaging the site, no?

I'm not sure what you mean by relationship either, you can just politely approach someone if they have social media and build a relationship as you would with any other human being? It helps having common ground to talk about too.

big_moist said:
I mean, the same I asked about loic could be asked about you. I totally get why you would be trusted in this community, I just fail to understand the relationship with animators.

Fans usually hit animators via DM to ask about details about their work, so most of the information is then shared via comments/tweets/discord.

PurpleGeth said:
lol I get the skepticism to an extent but 7000 uploads, 2000 comments and 20,000 tag edits later would be a strange time to start sabotaging the site, no?

I'm not sure what you mean by relationship either, you can just politely approach someone if they have social media and build a relationship as you would with any other human being? It helps having common ground to talk about too.

honestly I don't think internet points and rep is worth anything, but I do know people tend to put different weights in that kind of stuff so I get it. Either way, it would be very hard to 100% prove (or disprove) with the amount of "proof" given that its a "sabotage", so either way I think you would be safe even if it were one.

Well I think I already know where this conversation would go so I won't take it any further. Sorry for wasting your time and thank you for responding. I'm still a little bit skeptical tbh but whatever.

Ashita said:
Fans usually hit animators via DM to ask about details about their work, so most of the information is then shared via comments/tweets/discord.

And that is exactly why in one of my comments I asked if it he had previously talked to him before (or any other animator) where what he said was later confirmed by official sources (like personal twitter).

Either way I wont be messaging here anymore, just wanted to clarify that.

big_moist said:
honestly I don't think internet points and rep is worth anything, but I do know people tend to put different weights in that kind of stuff so I get it. Either way, it would be very hard to 100% prove (or disprove) with the amount of "proof" given that its a "sabotage", so either way I think you would be safe even if it were one.

Well I think I already know where this conversation would go so I won't take it any further. Sorry for wasting your time and thank you for responding. I'm still a little bit skeptical tbh but whatever.

what does anyone have to gain from lying about that? You're treating it like we're claiming Onodera hacked the pentagon nuclear codes or something. Integrating 3D software into 2D animation is something increasingly common around the industry, the staff working on Black Clover have been doing it on a near monthly basis for years now from individual cuts, to entire episodes built on Blender software foundation. Also Onodera himself has other scenes with the clearly same approach on this same website that you can look at with your eyes for free, sorry but there's nothing I can do for anyone still skeptical at this point.

can anyone tell who did which scene

I don’t care about discourse this is insane

Sourabh said:
I don't like how they animated Mahito bleeding. It looks like a fountain and the blood isn't coagulating at all, would be cooler if they made it more realistic instead of breaking the immersion.

Dude he's a curse spirit that can morph his body into anything. Yet blood spray that's clearly used for dramatic purpose takes you're immersion away?

gokilzo said:
can anyone tell who did which scene

Not 100% sure, but i am a bit confident in saying that at least (please take those with a grain of salt) :
0:00 to 0:05 : Tanaka
0:05 to 0:14 : Onodera
0:15 to 0:29 : Onodera
0:33 to 0:51 : Onodera
0:51 to end : Tanaka

Please feel free to correct me if i am wrong .

big_moist said:
honestly I don't think internet points and rep is worth anything, but I do know people tend to put different weights in that kind of stuff so I get it. Either way, it would be very hard to 100% prove (or disprove) with the amount of "proof" given that its a "sabotage", so either way I think you would be safe even if it were one.

Well I think I already know where this conversation would go so I won't take it any further. Sorry for wasting your time and thank you for responding. I'm still a little bit skeptical tbh but whatever.

Bruh moment... You do realize you're questioning the credibility of one of the main peeps of Sakugabooru while showing you don't even have much experience about the medium in the first place, are you serious?...

Edit: Oh, I didn't realize you are a new here, nevermind then...

Oh my goodness Ren Onodera is just a madman. I love how he's just not afraid to put things so close to the camera. And his motion is so weighty and consistent as well.